Jenifer Lewis flips open her newest memoir, the cheerily titled Walking in My Joy: In These Streets, and appraises the first photo inside: a distressing black-and-white selfie of her swollen face. It’s a jarring first image—puffy cheeks, a miserable expression—and is starkly at odds with the book’s glamorous cover portrait, featuring Lewis in a floor-length pink gown, kicking up a foot ensconced in a bedazzled heel. 

It’s meant to be outrageous. “How about this shit?” she exclaims over Zoom from her home in Los Angeles, holding the photo next to her face. “I put it in black and white, just to shock the fuck outta everybody. To go from this pretty, happy bitch to that! This is what stress looks like, bitches!”

This is the one-two punch of Lewis, the diva who loves to get real. Affectionately nicknamed the mother of Black Hollywood, she’s appeared in 400 episodic TV shows, 68 movies, and four Broadway shows. Among her hits? Playing Grandma Ruby in Black-ish, demanding matriarchs in Poetic Justice and What’s Love Got to Do With It and starring alongside Meryl Streep in Mother Courage and Her Children. In July, Lewis, currently starring in the Showtime series I Love That for You, cemented her achievements with a hard-earned star on the Walk of Fame. “Everybody [sent] flowers,” Lewis recalled. “My house looked like a funeral home at one point!”

Lewis chronicled her early successes in her first memoir, The Mother of Black Hollywood—a tart but sage tome about her career, her journey with bipolar disorder, and her sex addiction. Now she’s back with Walking in My Joy, which picks up where The Mother left off, chronicling her life during the Trump years and the pandemic. Walking has the same campy, conversational tone as Lewis’s first book. It’s decidedly funnier and louder, but also grounded by deeply personal stories, including a detailed examination of her relationship with an ex-boyfriend who scammed her out of $50,000. (He pleaded guilty to a federal fraud charge in 2020.) There’s also a devastating story about Lewis’s friend Kathy Griffin, who called Lewis one night during the height of quarantine, afraid she had overdosed on sleeping pills. 

“‘I need help’ [are] three of the most powerful words on the planet,” Lewis says. “And certainly the most difficult to say.” The book reflects that message, with Lewis writing about her own mental health struggles and how she herself has continued to push through. “Show business is easy,” she says. “Show business is brushing my teeth now. But mental, spiritual, and physical self-care is the most important thing. To put these thoughts and feelings into a book is one of the best things I’ve done because I have so much in me. So much gratitude. And so many crazy stories.”

Vanity Fair: The book is very political. There’s a very strong anti-Trump stance. There’s political spoken-word lyrics between each chapter. When did you decide to make politics a theme?

Jenifer Lewis: It’s a theme throughout because it is what I was living. When the Trump era came, a fire was lit under me politically. I knew it was a dangerous situation. I knew before he was elected he was mentally ill. I know what it looks like. He went on to display every symptom of a sociopath. It was just wrong. I had to do everything I could to let people know during a very difficult time that we’re going to be all right. 

Those songs [in the book] were written after major events in this country. “Take Your Knee off My Neck” was after George Floyd. “We’re Going to Be All Right” was after the shooting in Florida [at Pulse nightclub]. One came from Parkland. There was an overhead camera shot of the kids coming out of the school with their hands above their heads, and I could see one little boy’s arms were extended forward. I knew he was in shock, because I know what shock looks like. God gave a snail a shell; shock is our shell when things can’t be processed. When the guy came into my apartment in New York with a knife. When I nearly drowned in the Pacific. When my girlfriend revealed to me my boyfriend was a con artist—these were times I went into shock. When I’m out in the world on tour with my books, I’m not selling books. I don’t need that money. Writing these books was giving these kids the knowledge that no matter how big the fire is, they can come through.

You open the book with a very colorful story about being called into Kenya Barris’s office for a meeting to pitch you on a Black-ish spinoff called Old-ish. But at first, you didn’t understand why he was calling you into a meeting. You thought he might say something out of pocket, or even fire you. Why did you think that? 

Well, I had never been called to the office! I am, after all, Jenifer Lewis! Bitch, you want me? Come the fuck over here! I’m the one that’s in my sixties. I’m not coming to you. [Laughs] One of the reasons I had reservation is because as a child, I was always going to the office. I’m like, what the fuck’s going on? I’m being fired? Come on, nigga, what you got? The gay boys will come burn this bitch down. Fire me, see what the fuck happens. I wish you would! 

How far in development did Old-ish get? Were there scripts? 

No, no. COVID stopped it. Between Laurence [Fishburne’s] schedule and my schedule and then COVID, COVID pretty much took it out. [But] honey, I’m so happy. And you heard me in the book, I didn’t want to be number two on the call sheet. It’s too much work. They should have asked when I was 40 or 50, but then I wouldn’t have been ready. You can’t get shit until it’s your time to get it. I auditioned for Orange Is the New Black [in a role that went to Lorraine Toussaint]. When you look back, Jenifer Lewis’s personality should not be in a prison cell. I don’t give a fuck what it is about. 

I didn’t belong on a set like that, as good the show was; I never saw it, but everybody said it was good. I didn’t belong there. Now I’m doing a show that actually has the word “love” in the title. I Love That for You. I love that. And I’ve given such an amazing performance. I say that because I know it is my best work.

It’s tailor-made for you, that role. 

It is. And they let me run with it. They’re using every inch of my talent. 

They brought singing in, which I didn’t think was in the cards for that character. 

I read some review where somebody said, “Okay, if y’all just want to interrupt the comedy and let Jenifer Lewis sing a song, I’m here for it!” Hilarious. It’s a beautiful environment there. When they called me about the series and they said Molly Shannon, I told them, you had me at hello. And then I met Vanessa Bayer. That bitch is made of cotton candy and Christmas morning. They’re both comedic giants. They’re so talented. I had to step up! These girls were on Saturday Night Live. All right, maybe I didn’t have step up that much. [Laughs] But yeah, I’m having the time of my life doing Patricia Cochran.

How close were you actually to retiring at that point?

Not that fucking close. But I did have a plan B. I was going to go back to St. Louis and buy a speakeasy. Serve some food and drinks and invite all my celebrity friends to come and perform.

Who were the friends you had in mind? 

Oh honey, Brandy would come. Toni Braxton. Jennifer Holliday. They show up for auntie, girl. Very few people tell me no. And I’ll tell you why: I don’t ask for things I don’t need. I’m an alpha and I’ll go get it myself. But I always tell my assistant, let me save that card. You don’t call Denzel until you need him. You don’t call Meryl Streep until you really need her. 

You wrote beautifully about Meryl in your first book. Have you used that card yet?

I have not. I almost called her for something, but I’m saving that card. She’s absolutely lovely.

Going back to the Kenya story, you wrote this about potentially being fired: “I came from nothing and I’ve saved all my money. So if I’m about to be fired, the entirety of Hollywood can kiss my ass.” I loved the sentiment. Tell me about the moment you realized you had that level of security.

It was actually after I landed I Love That for You. I really tested the waters when they called because I had a plan B and because I didn’t really know about the project. It was like, okay, I’m going back to St. Louis. I’m going to grow old with my siblings and be with people who love me. During the pandemic, all you wanted was to be with people you loved. I said to myself after Black-ish: Go home. I can do animation [voice acting] from St. Louis. Everything is on Zoom now anyway. If somebody wanted me to come out here and guest star on a show or do a movie—if you got the money, I’ll come and do it. 

Because I had that plan, I told the people at I Love That for You, this is what I need if I’m going to stay. And they were beautiful. They wanted Jenifer Lewis. I was able to tell them, No, I won’t audition for you. I just did eight years, primetime network TV. I’m not auditioning for anybody anymore. And why is that, Miss Lewis? Because I saved my money and I don’t need you.

Did they actually want you to audition?

No, no, no. I’m just saying how the thought process has changed. You don’t even get to meet me until you show me the script and show me that you are going to be respectful of what I’ve done in this business. And at the time you’re getting me is at the height of my career. So what are you prepared to do? 

Showtime was really good to me. They honored me for all the work I’ve done in this business. I am working in an environment that’s allowing me to create such a great character as Patricia Cochran. I’m having the time of my life, believe me. I’ve been a diva a long time. Now I’m wise. I’ve come into my own in that way.

I want to ask about some people you mention in the book. You talked about quarantine and what that was like. But you also tell a story about Kathy Griffin. [At the height of quarantine, Griffin, who had become addicted to prescription pills, called Lewis at 3 o’clock in the morning and told her she may have overdosed on sleeping pills. Lewis went to Griffin’s house and stayed overnight. The next day, Lewis instructed Griffin to go to rehab, which she later did.] Talk to me about the decision to include the story. Did you talk about it with Kathy? 

I called and asked her if she wouldn’t mind if I used that particular story, because she had already come out with her drug addiction. I wrote it, I sent it to her and she approved it. She said, Absolutely. This’ll help somebody. Be my guest. Both of us knew that that story would help people. 

We celebrities are human beings. We hurt. We get our hearts broken. We break hearts. It all comes back to who you are. Who am I today? Am I living on purpose? Or am I clawing at the void? Will I walk in my joy today and acknowledge the color purple? I’ve got jacaranda trees around my house. Three months out of the year, it’s purple. I lay here in this plethora of purple and I give thanks. Baby girl, I’m far from perfect. But goddamn it, I pay attention to life. And why is that, Miss Lewis? Because I got 30 summers left and bullshit doesn’t get one.

Thank you for sharing that. I assumed Kathy had given you permission to put something so personal and sensitive in there. [A representative for Griffin later confirmed this to V.F.]

I don’t write anything that I don’t get permission to [write]. Because people trust me. That’s why I’m always called. When Will slapped Chris? My phone was off the hook. “Auntie, go get your nephew.” I was in the garden like, what the fuck happened? I wasn’t watching the Oscars. 

I heard he was in India when I was in India. It all went too fast for me to try to find him, but hopefully he will do the right thing. Heavy is the head that wears the crown. I know, because I wear one. But that does not excuse us. I’m praying that he will get help. I know that deep down inside, he is a good soul. But when you are a king, you must adhere to the music of the symphony that’s being played. Bitch, you’re at the Oscars! Now go on to the next question before I go the fuck off.

I’ll move on. [Laughs] Going back to people you mention in the book, you include a chapter about the ex-boyfriend who scammed you and several other women. You pursued him legally and were able to get justice. I know you told the story publicly beforehand, but talk to me about delving back into it for the book. What was that like for you? 

It’s very difficult. After I told the story, that was a chapter I didn’t want to read anymore. When [he was sentenced to] eight years, I was happy. But it was how I wanted Trayvon Martin’s mother to feel, and Mike Brown’s mother to feel. 

You wanted that kind of justice for those women. 

Yes. I kept a private eye on that motherfucker for five years. Who’s got that kind of money? But I was determined to get that son of a bitch off the street. The reason I gave it to TMZ was because I knew, with all the work I’ve done and all the tools that I have acquired to keep myself afloat in this world, if I was in as much pain as I was, then what must other women be going through? I owe that to other women, because I had so many mothers that gave it to me. You’ve got to have that girlfriend in your life that will tell you your boyfriend is an asshole. 

It was a difficult thing to go through. I’m still going through it. You never get over shit like that. But I function very well. I’m so glad I’m single. I’m so glad I ain’t got to deal with nobody else’s shit. I can do what I want, when I want, how I want. Go where I want. Sleep in the temperature I want to sleep in. I have a freedom that’s overwhelming sometimes. I love being free. 

And here’s the thing: Had I not given the con artist story up, I would not have been able to write. If I gave the world that, then I could give anything. The sex addiction and the abortion, I didn’t give a fuck. Yeah, I did it. But look at me now, bitches.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. All products featured on Vanity Fair are independently selected by our editors. However, when you buy something through our retail links, we may earn an affiliate commission.